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Old 04-29-2007, 02:40 PM   #1
Orfilinn
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Default How can I get a parameter feedback of a VSTi, with my BCR2000?

Hi!

I bought a BCR2000 recently, especially to control parameter of VST FX and synths,with automation recording.

I did a lot of tries this week: I can control and record the automation of a parameter. It's ok. For example: to record a cut-off of a VSTi bass synth, in "TOUCH mode", after MIDI-learning the knob of mu BCR with the LEARN button of the automation window)

But my BCR doesn't get the value of the parameter in reaper . So if I play again the sequence, and want to change a bit the previously recorded parameter value in 'TOUCH mode' , it "jumps" from the previously recorded value to the first value of the knob of the BCR I send through midi.
Of course, if I play the sequence: the LED around the knob of the BCR doesn't light on to follow the evolution of the parameter...


However, If I use My BCR as " BCF2000 Mode " in Reaper Preference / control Surface : I can use knobs and buttons to control panning, volume and "mute" of tracks, for example, and if I recorded automation: the LEDS of the BCR follow the value changing during playback (or when I move them manually) . So it works in this mode.

But with LEARN fonction of automation window , I can write with my BCR, but I can't get back the parameter feedback.

BTW: I use the BCR plugged in USB, in USB mode 1.

Last edited by Orfilinn; 04-30-2007 at 01:49 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:34 PM   #2
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No-one use the same MIDI controller with such a problem?
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Old 07-12-2007, 02:20 AM   #3
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that's why "generic remote" (for using generic midi controllers as a control surface with param feedback) would be way cool - there's been a bunch of FRs for that, wold make me happy, too...

edit: i use bcr2000, too, it's a genius controller for vst synths

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Old 07-12-2007, 07:41 AM   #4
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Thx for your post.

I already post this problem, or question about automation, in some threads, and actually it was a good point to explain (again) to me about this "generic remote".

( I'm not really confortable with all the english words )

I hope some *great* improvement about automation will go in the 2.xx version of reaper.


The BCR2000 is a cheap midi controller, but really useful!! and could be more useful in Touch mode to record some correction of values.

And because I know that I can get the parameter feedback in "BCF2000" mode, and not with the MIDI Learn capability, I know that there is not-so-much things to do to make it possible


So I will wait the developpement of the Generic Remote...

did Justin speak about that already ?
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:25 AM   #5
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I don't think so. you could put an FR e.g. here and up that thread...

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...generic+remote
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:02 AM   #6
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+10

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Old 07-26-2007, 09:33 AM   #7
Orfilinn
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Hi flight.

I posted in the thread about to have a function of "generic remote" in REAPER, the link was give by fab, upper.



but you can post in the THE BIG MIDI REQUEST thread in the FR section, as you want.
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Old 07-28-2007, 07:39 PM   #8
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Orfilinn --

I was just figuring out how to best make my BCR2000 work with Reaper this week and I have the answer to your question... Sort of.

My solution doesn't give you *true* paramter feedback -- in other words, you won't see the lights on the BCR 2000 match up with the relative fader levels in Reaper -- but it does give you a workaround for, say, preventing your carefully adjusted fader in Reaper from jumping around to a value you never had intended when you touch the BCR 2000 knob.

Here's what you need to do. First, don't use the built in BCF 2000 template. Use the Options -> Preferences -> Keyboard/Control screen to set CC instead.

Set up your BCR 2000 so that each knob has the 6th parameter (press down on knob 6 when you're in a knob's edit mode) set to rel1, rel2, or rel3. (I can't tell a difference yet between the three, so just pick one and stick with it.)

Now go into Reaper's Keyboard/Control screen and map, say, a track's volume level to the first knob on the BCR 2000. When you set this up, make sure you set the "MIDI CC mode" dropdown box at the bottom of the dialog box to the same relative mode (1, 2, or 3) you set up on your BCR 2000.

And... that's it! Again, the lights on the BCR 2000 won't match up with what's in Reaper, but the basic functionality you need is all there in Reaper and in the BCR. And, unlike the BCF 2000, you can grab one of any 32 faders at any time without bank switching. Hope this helps!
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Old 07-28-2007, 08:27 PM   #9
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One additional trick/tip... If you're regularly dealing with lots of tracks and the ability to grab any of the first 32 tracks in a session is important to you, you can set up one program on the BCR where it controls only the volume faders... then make the next program in memory control the pans. It's *very* slick to be able to instantly pull any fader, then press one button and control the pans of any of those 32 tracks.

FWIW, I made one program on the BCR where I set a unique CC (I used the CC # that corresponded with the fader #) but set each knob to transmit on MIDI channel 1. That was my "fader" program. Then when I made the "pan" program, I simply copied my fader program to a new memory location and changed all the MIDI transmit channels to 2. Of course, you need to go into Reaper and make sure it understands all these messages, but once it's set up, it's fantastic...

Last edited by simplecarnival; 07-28-2007 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:43 AM   #10
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thx, simplecarnival.

I already tried to work in "relative mode", as i tried to find a solution; but maybe I did something wrong, because when I wanted to record the modification of an automated parameter value; it changes toooo slowwly. for example f i hab a cut-off at 50%, i wasn't able to rise it better than 60%, even if i tri to move quicky the knob. (if you understand me)



Btw, I post the same explanation as you in the past, here :

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplecarnival View Post
My solution doesn't give you *true* paramter feedback -- in other words, you won't see the lights on the BCR 2000 match up with the relative fader levels in Reaper -- but it does give you a workaround for, say, preventing your carefully adjusted fader in Reaper from jumping around to a value you never had intended when you touch the BCR 2000 knob.
To explain why parameter feedback is really a good thong to correct a recorded value in Touch mode.

But actually you explain in a way awesome compare to me.
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:24 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orfilinn View Post
thx, simplecarnival.
when I wanted to record the modification of an automated parameter value; it changes toooo slowwly. for example f i hab a cut-off at 50%, i wasn't able to rise it better than 60%, even if i tri to move quicky the knob. (if you understand me)
If you're controlling Reaper itself and not plugins (which is what I've used the BCR for so far) and you set it up in the way I've described, it should work fine... and it's probably more powerful than using the BCF template, since you can control more than 8 faders at a time.

What you probably need is one program on the BCR to handle Reaper (using relative mode), then another to handle your basic plugin controls (using absolute mode). Or combine them into one big program somehow, though you'd probably be giving up some flexibility on either the Reaper or plugin side. I'm not aware of a way to control plugins with relative mode, as I've never tried it (nor do I have a need for it).

I re-read your first post and realize I misunderstood what you were having a problem with -- I thought it was controlling Reaper, not the plugins. My oversight. Anyway, hope some of the information I've posted is helpful.
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:43 AM   #12
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It's always useful to post constructive posts, and as i don't know well a this time Reaper, and my BCR, I go on an go on to learn something, thanks to this forum.

And i still want the parameter feedback of automated parameter/funtion through the MIDI Learn feature


I hope Cockos will develop it soon, maybe with the generic remote
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orfilinn View Post
..parameter feedback of automated parameter/funtion through the MIDI Learn feature


I hope Cockos will develop it soon, maybe with the generic remote

yes please, otherwise external controlers are too limited
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Old 12-30-2007, 09:33 PM   #14
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You can also put the BCR2000 in Mackie Control emulation mode and use Reaper's Mackie Control preset.

Go here:
http://www.geocities.jp/mackicrokontrol/

afaik works only for faders and pan so far, not VST(i).

But if you set it up correctly, you get visual feedback on the BCR (updating knobs) and you can control more than eight tracks via changing banks.

Last edited by nofish; 12-30-2007 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:03 PM   #15
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Default ...joining along in digging out and bumpin' threads requesting controller feedback...

C'mon y'all!

We be needin' di-rect.

Yup.
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon View Post
C'mon y'all!

We be needin' di-rect.

Yup.
Bump...
Bump...
Bump...
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:52 AM   #17
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+1!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-25-2008, 03:14 PM   #18
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+1

still no direct support for the bcr
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:01 AM   #19
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SimpleCarnival,

What you write may work, but since I don't yet have a BCR2000, I don't understand a word of it! i am having the same problem as the OP, but with my two X-Sessions.

In Ableton, this problem goes away by simply selecting the "pick up" option. That is, an ext-controller's fader or knob movement does nothing until its value reaches the value that the software knob is currently at. Then it "picks up" control. The hardware doesn't have to know anything, it's all done in the DAW.

Simple & effective.

See my related thread:

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21555

Last edited by Cableaddict; 05-28-2008 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 05-28-2008, 09:28 AM   #20
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+1 !!!!!!!
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:50 AM   #21
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"What you probably need is one program on the BCR to handle Reaper (using relative mode), then another to handle your basic plugin controls (using absolute mode)."

doesn't work too well, either, because BCR2000 sends everything on one single midi port. if you enable that port as a mackie control surface and as a midi controller at the same time, you run into all sorts of conflicts. the mackei control uses all sorts of messages on different channels, so you need to reserve a dedicated port for that.

anyway

still +1

for generic remote AND

for an MCU implementation that includes control of vsts

fab
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:10 AM   #22
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Default intergrated?

i'm looking at the BCF for controling REAPER too, where are we at with it? what works and what does not work?

i've been trawling thru old threads, but i'm confused as to whether this wil work or not. the price on the BCF seems very good, but how "intergrated" can it be with REAPER?

or is there a better option (eg Tascam US-2400).

sorry to hijack this thread...
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