Old 03-22-2007, 03:34 PM   #1
teej813
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Default Sample Mix Project - wiki

<EDIT>: There's been interest, so we're moving ahead. Submit your mix, and i'll add it to the Project Mix section of the wiki Tutorials Page. Pipe? I figured this was the logical place for it. If you disagree, just holler.</EDIT>

<EDIT>: Since everyone is able to add to the wiki, please do that yourself. Thanks! Also, while it's cool to be able to hear what you've done with these projects, it's especially helpful to be able to SEE what you've done. Please consider uploading your Reaper project file too. Thanks!</EDIT>



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Project 1: RIB Calendar
I'd categorize this project as MODERATE. It includes:
- multitrack drums
- bass
- dual rhythm guitar
- dual lead guitar
- lead Vox
- harmony vox (6 tracks)

DL it, have a go at mixing using included and/or free fx (be sure to provide links to any non-Reaper fxs plus any verb impulse you use), post your .RPP file in this thread. I'll post the projects & mixes in the wiki.


Submissions:
* Loser's Mix -- Project File
* Teej's Mix -- Project File
* LikeNoKevin's Mix -- Project File
* Smasha's Mix -- Project File
* Kilroy's Mix
* Lawrence's Mix
* Odin's Mix
* Xackly's Mix
* Sidguatama's Mix
* johnmix's Mix


EXTRA!!!!!!
Check out this fabulous Pipeline Audio tutorial on this very project! Hear how the original tracks were recorded and mixed from the guy who did it.
Tracking Distorted Guitar



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Project 2:
Till's Song

I haven't had a chance to listen to this yet, but feel free to DL it and give it a go. Post links to final mixes in this thread, and i'll add them here.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Original Post Follows:

hey, all...

Till started a thread (http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7400) asking for mix material to practice on. Pipe, Moon, and Gerry provided some raw tracks.

This got me thinking... what if we created a wiki page with a Sample Mix Project on it? Raw tracks with a basic project file (no fx), plus a handful of project files (rough mix or more) submitted by us, for comparison purposes.

Consider it a way to pitch in and help newbies learn Reaper... and, if you're like me, ya might learn from it too.


If we did this, would anyone be interested in participating? It would mean DLing the raw project, doing your own mix (might be best to just use included fx?), and uploading the project file.

We can work out details about where the files are stored and how we get our mix projects linked on the wiki page.

At this point, i'm just curious if there's any interest.


tj
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Old 03-22-2007, 04:43 PM   #2
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I'm interessted (not in providing material to mix, but to mix , I need the practice so bad )

Okay lemme breack my idea down:

People post projects.

Other people mix the projects and post the .rpp (and maybe a mp3 off the track just to check if everything playsback correct) and provide some info on how and why they did specific things, so others can learn.

In the end everyone is happy poster, got a mixed project, mixer, got some experience, and the random guy learns something from watching the madness...

Just a few thoughts.

P.S. Doesn't fit into this thread but here is a Mp3 of a mix I did with the project cAPSLOCK posted some time ago (hope you don't mind me posting it, otherwise tell me and the link will be gone ASAP!) https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/15342/c..._mixmaster.mp3

Let's make a REAPER knowlege base, and make the REAPER users the best audio-educated DAW users out there
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:06 PM   #3
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I'd be willing to offer the project file I posted to Till, but I'd like to get the OK from the rest of the "band" before I'd offer it for public consumption. However, I don't see that anyone in the "band" (2 dudes other than myself) would mind; it's an older tune we did and it's no longer an active project for us.

That said, this tune that I'd be offering is a tough one to get a good mix on. Not only because it is made up of 31 audio tracks, but more specifically, because 8 of those tracks are from a live drum kit that was not recorded very well. However, it can be saved (via various turd-polishing methods) and it would be very interesting to me to see how folks would try to solve the "mix puzzle" on this one.

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Old 03-22-2007, 06:16 PM   #4
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I'm glad to see there's some interest in this. I too think it could be a great tool for both showing what Reaper can do and a learning experience for new users.


Would it make sense to limit fx to those included with Reaper?

[side note]
Loser,
i'd really like to see DVC added to the Reaper distro.
[/side note]

I'd also suggest we try to find 3 projects to begin; easy, moderate, and difficult projects.

Thoughts?


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Old 03-22-2007, 06:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teej813 View Post
I'm glad to see there's some interest in this. I too think it could be a great tool for both showing what Reaper can do and a learning experience for new users.


Would it make sense to limit fx to those included with Reaper?

[side note]
Loser,
i'd really like to see DVC added to the Reaper distro.
[/side note]

I'd also suggest we try to find 3 projects to begin; easy, moderate, and difficult projects.

Thoughts?


teej
If you'd like to take a look at the one I have as a medium or difficult mix project, just let me know!

-mr moon
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:21 PM   #6
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Awesome idea. That would be such a good way to learn. I can listen to great mixes(pro CDs) until I'm blue in the face, but to actually see what someone else did/does, would be such a great learning tool. I'm sure there would be lots of light bulb moments.

I think using only included plugins would be the way to go, or offer a download/link for anything else you want to use, ie. free plugins.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:39 PM   #7
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I agree, when I do these types of things I try and use only free or included plugs.
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Old 03-23-2007, 03:17 AM   #8
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Default cAPS project

It is my version of a mix on February, 13th. It is a simple and fast mix for a demo. For a professional mix the qualitative reverberator and finalizer is necessary. I think, Loser can make these plug-ins.
Attached Files
File Type: zip allreaper2.zip (2.6 KB, 377 views)
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Old 03-23-2007, 03:50 AM   #9
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Ok, here's what (i think) we have so far:

- Pick 3 projects (raw tracks); simple, moderate, and difficult
- Make sure we have permission!
- Make them available on a Mix Project wiki page
- Anyone can DL them, mix them, post the .rpp file and a sample
- Require that all submissions use only included fx


Details that need to be worked out:
- Where do we serve the projects? Justin? You once offered server space... is that offer still good?

- Which projects? Some have been offered. That's great! Let's just make sure that whatever projects we decide on have real potential for learning (good variety of instruments used, good quality recordings, etc.), otherwise we might end up discouraging newbies more than helping them. So, how do we choose?

- How will participants post their .rpp files? Those who have their own servers can link to them. What about those that don't? The wiki isn't like the forum where you can upload files to your post. Ideas?

- Should we have expectations for participants? Should we expect them to provide some basic info about their mix, or is seeing the .rpp file enuf? Just thinking out loud about what would be most helpful to newbies.

- Should we work out the details here in this thread first before posting anything to the wiki?



What else?


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Old 03-23-2007, 04:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teej813 View Post
- Require that all submissions use only included fx
Well, how about some free VSTs? 'Cause there is no alogverb in REAPER

Ohh and how am I supposed to mix my stuff w/o DVC?
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Old 03-23-2007, 05:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teej813 View Post
- Which projects? Some have been offered. That's great! Let's just make sure that whatever projects we decide on have real potential for learning (good variety of instruments used, good quality recordings, etc.), otherwise we might end up discouraging newbies more than helping them. So, how do we choose?

tj
I think that some of the projects with "less than perfect" recording quality, such as the one I uploaded to Till, should be considered as more "difficult" projects, rather than more simple "newbie" projects. Because I deal with primarily audio tracks in my projects, as I'd rather record it than sample it or create it via MIDI, I come across less than stellar tracks recordings often ...not always my fault either, sometime I pick up a semi-completed project or have a remote-location live project that I'm working on where it's more difficult (but not impossible) to record perfect tracks. I think that trying to rescue (polish) less than perfect tracks (turds) is a skill that is worthwhile to hone, as we'll all probably be faced with having to deal with some recorded tracks of once-in-a-lifetime excellent performances, but just without capturing them with great audio quality.

...Such is life.

As far as effects go, I think that using only Reaper's included effects and easily obtainable *free* VST effects would be the way to go. Perhaps we could have links to them on the same page where folks would download the projects from?

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Old 03-23-2007, 05:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
Ohh and how am I supposed to mix my stuff w/o DVC?
Exactly why i said...
[side note]
Loser,
i'd really like to see DVC added to the Reaper distro.
[/side note]

i love DVC! Anyone who hasn't given it a listen is missing something special.


Ok, so the participant provides a DL link for any non-Reaper effect. Seems like that gives more freedom to the person creating the mix and might even introduce some quality fx to newbies, and that's a good thing.


Moon,
I'm cool with providing a 'difficult' project with less-than-perfectly-recorded tracks. Anyone who can turn one of those into a usable mix can definately take a bow.

I'd just want to balance that against providing a project that can't be 'solved' by most folks and discouraging them. So, we'd want to be careful.


One of the cool things about doing all this is that anyone who DL's a finished project will have quality tracks to compare their own with. I mean, sometimes i get a bass track done and think it sounds pretty good until i compare it to other projects i've done in the past that really do have a good bass sound.

I've found that taking a break during my mix session to listen to a known-good track can really help me know when the track is 'done'. At least, it works for me.


I'm glad folks think this is a good idea and would be helpful to newbies. I'm excited about getting the details worked out and getting this started.


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Old 03-23-2007, 06:14 AM   #13
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OT, what DVC? The forum search won't take DVC as a search term as it is too short.
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:09 AM   #14
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Default Ok this is a bit nitpicking but probably necessary.

Just so that all reasonable steps are taken by all parties to avoid both flaming and worse I would suggest the following options be tickable in any such post, or a link to this sort of stuff marked "legal stuff":

Conditions:
1. I own or have all necessary permissions to publish this here; and
2. I have checked with all contributors and have permission for this masterpiece (including all samples and the like used) and accept all responsiblity for any breach;

Options:
A. I retain the copyright for this song however well it is mixed mashed or scrambled;
or
B. I release all this material under the creative commons licence;
or
C. I do not give a flying fig about the copyright in this project and anybody can do with it what they want.


I think that covers everybody, including the host.

Last edited by Gerry G; 03-23-2007 at 08:56 AM. Reason: couple of words here and there
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Old 03-23-2007, 07:38 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbagump View Post
OT, what DVC? The forum search won't take DVC as a search term as it is too short.
Here ya go, BG. http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...hlight=plugins
Grab 'em quick before Loser comes to his senses and starts charging for them!


Gerry,
good advice!


So, where do we go from here?


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Old 03-23-2007, 09:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teej813 View Post
Here ya go, BG. http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...hlight=plugins
Grab 'em quick before Loser comes to his senses and starts charging for them!
Actually, here you go:
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5871
(Since the freewebhoster my plug-ins are on, that I linked to in the other thread is down ...)

Unless of course you want to compile them yourself, plus maybe make nice shinny GUIs for them . Hehe, I'll only charge for stuff that really IS worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teej813
Gerry,
good advice!
Yes (how come I didn't think about that ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by teej813
So, where do we go from here?
I don't know, but you started this, so ...
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Old 03-23-2007, 11:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
I don't know, but you started this, so ...
Hmmmmm.. so i did.

At work, i come up with the ideas, and i sit back while my team makes them work. Guess that tactic won't work here, huh? I actually have to work? sheesh!


Ok, so seems to me, the next step is to post a project and get mixes submitted. We have a good start with Pipe's Calendar Project, so i'll add that to the OP (original post), and we can start collecting more mixes.

In the meantime, we'll arrange for more projects.


Loser,
Could you post your RPP file, please?


Moon? Have you had a chance to get permission to use your project?


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Old 03-23-2007, 12:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teej813 View Post


Moon? Have you had a chance to get permission to use your project?


teej
...Getting permission as I write this and I should have the final OK by tomorrow at the latest. I think there will be no issues, however I want to respect the wishes of all those who took part in the creation process of the tune and not commit 100% until I hear back from everyone, as I'm sure you can understand. The only "hiccup" that I could see getting in the way would be if one of the guys felt that they had completely moved on beyond this tune didn't want to have it representing what the band had done when it was still active.

We all know how "interesting" band splits can be even if all the members are still on speaking terms...



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Old 03-23-2007, 12:24 PM   #19
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totally understood, Moon... no rush, and no pressure.


hey, cAPS! You around? Any chance we could use the project you provided awhile back? The original tracks are so clean, it would be perfect for an Easy mix.


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Old 03-23-2007, 03:33 PM   #20
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Default Sorry I was not talking about current stuff

I was really referring to this being necessary if a formal part of the website was dedicated to it.

Let's face it swapping is done all the time and it is a bit anal retentive to be all formal about it but I was really thinking of how we could make sure Cockos and newcomers could feel confident of having done in this direction.

Have edited the wording a bit and I think a link to legal stuff is sufficient. After all Ebay and others do a lot of this on separate pages and you just acknowledge that you have read all the impenetrable latinesque phrasing.
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Old 03-23-2007, 04:33 PM   #21
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I posted this in the original thread but here it is again....


Here's my try at the Rib song. I tried to emphasize the raw music and the angelic vocals.

I tried to use only included FX. One thing I noticed is the JS plug, guitar/flanger, tends to crackle. I'm pretty sure the signal I was feeding it wasn't too hot, it was peaking at about -15.

http://www.the-epoxy.com/temp/Calendar-Likenomix.mp3
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Old 03-23-2007, 04:45 PM   #22
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Cool. Got it, Kevin. Hey, this sounds good! Great sounding snare!

Ummmm.. be sure to post your RPP file.


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Old 03-23-2007, 04:49 PM   #23
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It might load screwed up for other people because I had to render some of the effects as I went so now my source files are slightly different the original track names. Would it still be worth posting even if it won't find the media?
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Old 03-23-2007, 05:57 PM   #24
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hmmmmm.. yeah, that does complicate things a bit. Still, i think there's value in being able to see what you did.

Yeah, upload it, if you don't mind.


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Old 03-24-2007, 06:12 AM   #25
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This project has been added to the wiki. See first post.


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Old 03-24-2007, 10:16 AM   #26
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Loser,
Could you post your RPP file, please?
Okay here is my .rpp (had to redo it, 'cause I deleted the old one. Plus ,this time, I included the toms in the mix).

FX used:

Rea*:
VST "VST: ReaEQ (Cockos)" "reaeq.dll
VST "VST: ReaFir (FFT EQ+Dynamics Processor) (Cockos)" "reafir.dll"

JS:
JS "LOSER/Exciter"

Free third party VSTs: (I link to a download for each of them)
VST "VST: Digital Versatile Compressor (LOSER-Development)" "DVC.dll"
(Thread to discuss the quality of this plug-in here: http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5871)
(Yeah, I could have used ReaComp instead.)

VST "VST: Classic Reverb (Kjaerhus Audio)" "Classic Reverb.dll"
(Yeah, I could have used ReaVerb instead.)

VST "VST: W1 Limiter (George Yohng)" "George Yohng's W1 Limiter.dll
(I need to code a better JS limiter.)


Here is what I mostly did:
EQ'd the insturments (to give each it's seperate space). You'll notice I mostly highpassed everything in there (that's what I usually do, to keep my lows clean.) Plus accented the attack and thumb on the kick, toms and bass, the bottom and attack of the snare, and brought the sizzle/crunsh of the guitars abit more out, also slightly altered EQ settings beween the rythm and lead guitars, so the play nice nicely together.

Put Comps on kick, snare, bass, and toms (thats right NO compression on the vocals, sounded dens enough).

Ohh yeah and of course I adjusted the loudness of the instruments!

Then the brightness/polishing/blending section. Here I put a reverb on the snare, one on the OH, the lead guitars and the vocals. Plus I made a room verb bus, with recievs from the OHs, snare, toms and vocals. (Now you may see why I didn't use ReaVerb, to keep the CPU down so everyone can play the project .) In addition to that I added an exciter to the OHs and the vocals to give them more shine.


You'll notice the master FX chain is bypassed (by default). Switching it on let's you hear a little incooperated mastering and loudness maximizing.


I thought about making a video, but as I'm a horrible explainer and voiceover person, I abandoned the idea, hope someone likes it anyway


P.S. Before I forget to mention, I used ReaFir on the toms to eliminate leakage from the rest of the set (mainly OHs), pretty niffty. And I only edited the start and end (and tom automation), so you may still here some of the click track in the mix

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/15497/L...lendar_Mix.RPP
https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/15498/L...lendar_Mix.mp3
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:57 AM   #27
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Excellent mix notes, Loser. What i'm gonna do is paste them into a ReadMe file and zip it up with your RPP and the plugs you used.

I'm not familiar with the W1 limiter... hafta give that a listen. I've been using EventHorizon2.

I can really hear a diff between your first mix and this one; more clarity and thump in the kick and more space in the low end... bass cuts thru nicely.

Ummmm... i hesitate to mention, but on my system, the lead vox is now a bit thin compared to your first version. Is it possible the cut in lows was a bit too much? Or maybe it's just my monitors and these 53 yr old ears.

Anyway, i'll get this new version posted on the wiki.

Thanks, Loser! It's cool to hear different mixes of the same song. I'm learning a lot.


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Old 03-24-2007, 11:06 AM   #28
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Ummmm... i hesitate to mention, but on my system, the lead vox is now a bit thin compared to your first version. Is it possible the cut in lows was a bit too much? Or maybe it's just my monitors and these 53 yr old ears.
Hah, it must be the exciter (maybe overdid it abit, gonna re-listen later), 'cause on the first mix I did I cut the lows even more on the vocals IIRC.

The bass is more precent in this mix, 'cause I also put a comop on it (unlike the last mix).

Well, the W1 limiter is supposed to be something like the waves' L1. Regarding eventhorizen(2), give it a listen with headphones and you'll notic it gets raspy (crackling from clipping or something) on the highs e.g. on the overheads etc.. or maybe it's just me? /Edit:/ Well it doesn't do what I said, but at some point when it reaches a specific threshold, it'll just distort out of a sudden, and that can really get you bad distorted sound, some times . I rather prefer a limiter that I can turn down all the way and doesn't give you any distortion (it may start to pump though)...

Reagrding ziping the plug-ins with the project, I wouldn't do it, or atleast provide the links to the authors websites in the project notes, 'cause they deserve credit for their work

Last edited by LOSER; 03-24-2007 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 03-24-2007, 11:13 AM   #29
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ahhhh.. hadn't thought about credit to the fx writer. Yeah, that makes sense. Maybe include a link to their page in the Readme.

oh! You're the writer (DVC), in my case. Do you have a page i should point them to?

Thanks for the heads-up on EventHorizon. I've not heard clipping in it, but i'll give it another listen.



Justin? Christophe? Can we get server storage for this project?


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Old 03-24-2007, 11:22 AM   #30
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oh! You're the writer (DVC), in my case. Do you have a page i should point them to?
No (well I had one but it is constantly down for like the last month so I doubt it will ever come up again...).
Just say it (DVC) is good and all will be fine Hehe. J/k.

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Thanks for the heads-up on EventHorizon. I've not heard clipping in it, but i'll give it another listen.
If used in reasonable amounts it won't distorted (I'm not even sure if it is clipping), but it just starts to break at some uncontrolable point, and thats what I am afraid of ...

Edit: BTW I like your avatar (that's echosystms logo, right?. I didn't like it at first but seeing it in your avatar, it looks great.)

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Old 03-24-2007, 11:47 AM   #31
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Ummmm... i hesitate to mention, but on my system, the lead vox is now a bit thin compared to your first version. Is it possible the cut in lows was a bit too much? Or maybe it's just my monitors and these 53 yr old ears.
Yep sounds thin, I wish I could play with it all day to tweak it to perfection (the bass is also a bit pumpy, toms suck , and the cymbals/HH/ride don't sound well, maybe should have mixed the individual HH/ride tracks in, bleh, it's still somwhow listenable, though. The vocals kind'a sound phone-y, like through a telephone, maybe I boosted too much at 1k, well... let's not think about it too much).

I'm really excited to here a "professional" mix of it (Well plus seeing the .rpp for it of course )

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Old 03-24-2007, 12:05 PM   #32
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Okay monster spamage, but TeeJ your project uses some impulse files that couldn't be found .
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Old 03-24-2007, 12:40 PM   #33
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totally understood, Moon... no rush, and no pressure.

teej
Hey. I just got the "official" OK that I was waiting for, so give me an FTP address to upload the file to. The file is a ~260MB self-decompressing .exe that creates it's own directory for all the wav files from the project. It also includes a starting-point .RPP file which folks can use as a starting point that has all the drum, guitar, lead vox, etc., tracks labeled and separated into "submix" folders. There are no effects, no panning, and no volume levels set, so the project is wide open for anything.

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Old 03-24-2007, 12:50 PM   #34
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Ack! I forgot about the impulses. Sheesh... They're now included in the project zip file. Thanks!

Ok, the ReadMe mentions how great your plugins are, how nice you were to let us use them, and how outrageously handsome you are.

Will that do?


I decided to go back to TLs Maximizer as a 2-bus limiter. I've used it for ages and really like it, sooooo... It's no longer available on his page, so i just included it and added a link to his page.


Yes, that's Echo's work. I think the sickle could be slimmer, but overall, i like it too.

Moon,
Cool, and that sounds perfect. Unfortunately, i don't have access to ftp storage that size. Hmmmmm...


Justin? Christophe? Anybody have server space for these projects?


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Old 03-24-2007, 01:34 PM   #35
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Hey. I just got the "official" OK that I was waiting for, so give me an FTP address to upload the file to. The file is a ~260MB self-decompressing .exe that creates it's own directory for all the wav files from the project. It also includes a starting-point .RPP file which folks can use as a starting point that has all the drum, guitar, lead vox, etc., tracks labeled and separated into "submix" folders. There are no effects, no panning, and no volume levels set, so the project is wide open for anything.

-mr moon
Hey, if you are really keen on uploading it right now in this very second you might want to use http://www.sendspace.com/, but I'd wait for someone with an proper FTP to chime in and let you upload it there. (That means I also don't got an FTP server .)

P.S. Let's talk about ear fatiguing ... I'll post a fixed version of my mix soon
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Old 03-24-2007, 01:37 PM   #36
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Hey, if you are really keen on uploading it right now in this very second you might want to use http://www.sendspace.com/, but I'd wait for someone with an proper FTP to chime in and let you upload it there. (That means I also don't got an FTP server .)

P.S. Let's talk about ear fatiguing ... I'll post a fixed version of my mix soon
I'm in no rush...

1.830 just got posted, so I'm going to play around with that for a bit!



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Old 03-24-2007, 02:07 PM   #37
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Okay here it is (now it kinda sounds fatiguing, but that will do )

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/15531/L...lendar_Mix.mp3
https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/15532/L...lendar_Mix.RPP

I'm also gonna change it in the wiki
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Old 03-24-2007, 02:15 PM   #38
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Here's my RPP. The media will not be the same but it has the routing and such.

http://www.the-epoxy.com/temp/Calendar-Likenomix.RPP
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Old 03-24-2007, 02:28 PM   #39
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Also here in about a month I'll be able to offer up some tracks to mix. Right now it's just the instruments. We're adding vocals in 3 weeks. Simple punk rock type stuff. Nothing complicated and the songs are pretty short as well.

Let me know if anyone is interested and I'll upload it once we get the vocals tracked.
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Old 03-24-2007, 03:57 PM   #40
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Teej's project file is too intense for my 2.4 P4.
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