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12-20-2006, 09:32 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 46
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Sync another DAW using mmc/MTC?
I'm wondering if it would be possible to control another DAW with MIDI machine code (mmc) or MIDI Time Code (MTC). What I'd like to try is to sync a PTLE session to a Reaper session (on separate computers), thereby being able to play tracks in PTLE, and routing the tracks to the Reaper session.
The closest I've come so far is to run a MIDI output from Reaper to my Digi 002 MIDI port, and set Pro Tools to "wait for MIDI note" on record. When I hit play in Reaper, PTLE starts recording. Using this, I *could* route PTLE session outputs to Reaper inputs for recording. However, PT doesn't stop when I hit stop in Reaper, and there is no transmission of position information from Reaper to PTLE. It would be great to be able to control the PTLE transport from within Reaper.
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12-21-2006, 12:14 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio-Hedonist
I'm wondering if it would be possible to control another DAW with MIDI machine code (mmc) or MIDI Time Code (MTC). What I'd like to try is to sync a PTLE session to a Reaper session (on separate computers), thereby being able to play tracks in PTLE, and routing the tracks to the Reaper session.
The closest I've come so far is to run a MIDI output from Reaper to my Digi 002 MIDI port, and set Pro Tools to "wait for MIDI note" on record. When I hit play in Reaper, PTLE starts recording. Using this, I *could* route PTLE session outputs to Reaper inputs for recording. However, PT doesn't stop when I hit stop in Reaper, and there is no transmission of position information from Reaper to PTLE. It would be great to be able to control the PTLE transport from within Reaper.
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I think it's a limitation of PT LE that you can't properly sync it to an external clock. According to the Pro Tools Reference Guide the only sync option available in anything other than the HD version is "SMPTE Trigger Only" - where a particular timecode point triggers playback, but the Transport is in freewheel mode from there on.
Your best bet would be to export your audio in BWF format. You could then import this into REAPER and use the "Move items to source preferred position" function to align these files to their correct position.
It's definitely possible to sync other DAW's with REAPER - I've done it using Samplitude - it's just not possible with PT LE.
Cheers,
Malcolm.
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12-21-2006, 03:41 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 100
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Rewire Reaper into PTLE. PTLE is a Rewire host, so i believe it is possible to pipe channels and midi back and forth. And rewire will give you sampleaccurate sync.
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12-23-2006, 05:12 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The ATL
Posts: 14
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It is possible to sync PTLe to other apps via midi. I've done it with Cubase and with a RADAR. It does require two midi cables. in->out and out->in. I thought you said you were only using one. I also don't really understand why you are trying to sync the two apps.
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12-24-2006, 12:17 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 46
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Thanks for the insights.. I think that the main thing I'm trying to accomplish with this idea is to be able to play Xpand! in Pro Tools and route its output to Reaper tracks. It would be relatively easy to route only the audio, but it would be nice to keep Xpand! output in MIDI, for the tempo/pitch flexibility, and use multiple tracks of it, before actually rendering to audio tracks in Reaper. I'll experiment around. Maybe I could record the MIDI from my keyboard into Reaper tracks, and route the MIDI from those tracks to Xpand! to get the audio, without having to sync the transports of both DAWs together.
This stuff would just be an interim solution, until I'm able to get a good equivalent VSTi for Reaper. Someone in the general discussion forum suggested Steinberg's Hypersonic 2, which does look pretty good, and in fact, probably a step-up from Xpand! (although you can't beat Digi's price on Xpand! - it's free).
I'll try the suggestion of using both MIDI cables, and see if I can get PT and Reaper to sync up. As far as Rewire goes, yes, that sounds like it would work, but I'm using PT and Reaper on separate computers.. isn't Rewire for apps running on the same computer?
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01-02-2007, 03:51 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 360
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I am having a similar issue. I cannot get Reaper to send out an MTC signal to anything in my studio. I've only been able to get it to send midiclock and SPP. That would be great if I was running an external hardware sequencer, but that's not the case. I'm running a software sequencer on the same pc as Reaper.
My system consists of two VS1880s for recording, Cakewalk Pro 3.0 for midi sequencing and Vegas for mixing.
My goal is to replace Vegas with Reaper (because I think Reaper looks better and has some cooler features than Vegas), however... since my entire system relies heavily on MTC, I am unable to fit Reaper into the equation.
So in the meantime, I will continue to use Vegas until the day MTC i/o is added to Reaper.
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01-02-2007, 04:57 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBeat
I am having a similar issue. I cannot get Reaper to send out an MTC signal to anything in my studio. I've only been able to get it to send midiclock and SPP. That would be great if I was running an external hardware sequencer, but that's not the case. I'm running a software sequencer on the same pc as Reaper.
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You need to use the Insert > SMPTE LTC/MTC Timecode Generator function, and an audio output, to get REAPER to send MTC. The MIDI Outputs only send SPP.
Once you insert a Timecode Generator event, select it and then Crtrl+F2 to open the SMPTE Generator Properties window. Here you can set the timecode frame rate, start time, and whether the format is LTC, MTC or both.
This assumes, of course, that the DAW/Audio Interface you are syncing to has the ability to accept a SMPTE timecode signal on an audio or dedicated timecode input.
Cheers,
Malcolm.
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01-02-2007, 05:16 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmj
This assumes, of course, that the DAW/Audio Interface you are syncing to has the ability to accept a SMPTE timecode signal on an audio or dedicated timecode input.
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Hi Malcolm,
So it only sends an audio SMPTE signal, eh? Bummer. My digital workstations don't accept that and neither does my Cakewalk program.
I haven't used an audio SMPTE signal since '93, when I was still using tape machines. Not saying that's a bad thing. It's nice to know that reaper can send audio SMPTE because I am sure there are people out there with tape machines that would like to send their audio to pc.
I actually didn't even know digital machines could accept an audio SMPTE signal. Probably because I've used only Roland VS recorders since 1996 and they don't accept it.
Anyway, thanks for responding. I really appreciate anyone who takes out the time to help, but it looks like I'll still have to wait until reaper is updated in the syncing department before I can use it with my existing system the way I am used to.
Cheers!
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01-02-2007, 06:07 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBeat
I actually didn't even know digital machines could accept an audio SMPTE signal. Probably because I've used only Roland VS recorders since 1996 and they don't accept it.
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The VS-2480 has a dedicated SMPTE-In socket on the back panel.
How would you normally feed SMPTE to your VS-1880?
Cheers,
Malcolm.
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01-02-2007, 02:05 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 360
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Hi Malcolm,
Normally, I just set the software sequencer to send or recieve MTC and it does. The signal is transmitted thru the midi ports.
Anyway, I just learned how to make reaper send MTC thru the midi output to my VS-1880.
Add a new track in reaper, then insert an SMPTE/MTC event. Drag the event to extend to the length of the song. Go to the source properties and uncheck "Send Audio LTC" and then check "Send midi (MTC)."
Then go to that track's I/O parameters and set the "Midi Hardware Output" to the midi port your external DAW is using. You're done. It works.
So reaper IS able to send MTC thru the midi output. I am glad to know that. I still have another problem with reaper's sync capabilities, but I don't want to turn this thread into a b-tch session... LOL!
I'll continue to post about it in the reaper request section. Thanks for your time, Malcolm.
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01-02-2007, 05:02 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 360
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One last update:
I have implemented a workaround to this problem now using a utility called MIDIYOKE.
Now everything is communicating properly.
My problems have been solved.
Everyone have a glorious day!!!
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01-02-2007, 08:13 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBeat
So reaper IS able to send MTC thru the midi output. I am glad to know that.
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Yes, thanks for the tip. I didn't realise you could route MTC that way.
Cheers,
Malcolm.
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01-03-2007, 02:52 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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Cool, works flawless with Cubase.
The only issue i had was if the "send all midi output to channel" box is ticked, it doesnt send any MTC. If i untick it, it works perfect.
Just need to make sure both sequencers are set to the same tempo and the cursors are in the same spot on their timelines.
Could you describe your issue and solution for others that may have the same problem in the future.
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01-08-2007, 08:29 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billoon
Could you describe your issue and solution for others that may have the same problem in the future.
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I was trying to get reaper to send MTC thru the midi outputs as a workaround for another problem I had with reaper, but as it turns out, that workaround did not work for me so now I am back to square one.
Seems the only time I will be able to sync my:
1. VS1880
2. Reaper
3. Cakewalk sequencer
altogether with no problems is the day they add " slave to MTC" ability to reaper.
So I'll be waiting in the shadows until that day.
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01-08-2007, 09:17 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 46
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Great info, and yes, it appears that Pro Tools LE does not respond to MTC sync.
It would be great if Reaper was able to slave to MTC, and/or MMC, and/or SMPTE frames, for audio post applications.
Actually, my original problem stated above is pretty much taken care of by the MIDI and audio routing I worked out:
1. I play my keyboard controller (CME UF6) and record a MIDI track into Reaper.
2. At the same time, I output the MIDI (effectively a 'thru' connection) from the Reaper computer's sound card (Sound Blaster Live! Platinum), into the Digi 002's MIDI input.
3. In PTLE (on my notebook computer), I create an instrument track with the XPand! software synth, and play it with the incoming MIDI stream. (no need to sync the DAW transports together) I set PTLE for 'Low Latency Monitoring' in Options. Response is pretty quick with this setting.
4. I route the audio from XPand!/PTLE via the S/PDIF on the 002 to my Reaper computer's S/PDIF inputs.
5. I create and record an audio track in Reaper with the audio from the XPand! instrument. Voila! I'm playing my RTAS virtual instrument and recording it in Reaper. Both MIDI and audio, if need be.
So far, I've only played one instance of XPand! in PT via the MIDI connection, but with 16 channels, I could open a bunch more XPand! instruments and play them via more MIDI channels, recording separate MIDI tracks in Reaper on each pass; however, my current sound card is only stereo, so I couldn't play multiple instances of XPand! back into Reaper without mixing the incoming audio to stereo. That Fireface 400 is lookin' better all the time. :-)
I'm learning stuff every day, and reading this forum definitely helps!
Last edited by Audio-Hedonist; 01-08-2007 at 09:21 PM.
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02-11-2007, 12:28 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBeat
I was trying to get reaper to send MTC thru the midi outputs as a workaround for another problem I had with reaper, but as it turns out, that workaround did not work for me so now I am back to square one.
Seems the only time I will be able to sync my:
1. VS1880
2. Reaper
3. Cakewalk sequencer
altogether with no problems is the day they add "slave to MTC" ability to reaper.
So I'll be waiting in the shadows until that day.
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So, have there been any developments on sending reaper projects back into a VS1880?
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05-18-2007, 10:17 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 52
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Thank you so much for this thread as i am having this issue right now using a vs-1680,mpc3000, and reaper. I want reaper to be master clock for all.
thx again
p.s. Very special thx to "Billion" for pointing me to this post.
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07-15-2007, 02:53 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 198
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Ah! Glad I found this thread,
as this stuff about pressing Ctrl+F2 on the SMPTE object doesn't seem to be documented anywhere in the User Guide or wiki...?
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08-01-2007, 04:29 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: exeter, devon, uk
Posts: 1
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thank you
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyBeat
Hi Malcolm,
Normally, I just set the software sequencer to send or recieve MTC and it does. The signal is transmitted thru the midi ports.
Anyway, I just learned how to make reaper send MTC thru the midi output to my VS-1880.
Add a new track in reaper, then insert an SMPTE/MTC event. Drag the event to extend to the length of the song. Go to the source properties and uncheck "Send Audio LTC" and then check "Send midi (MTC)."
Then go to that track's I/O parameters and set the "Midi Hardware Output" to the midi port your external DAW is using. You're done. It works.
So reaper IS able to send MTC thru the midi output. I am glad to know that. I still have another problem with reaper's sync capabilities, but I don't want to turn this thread into a b-tch session... LOL!
I'll continue to post about it in the reaper request section. Thanks for your time, Malcolm.
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hi and thanks.big 1st project for reaper, need mtc to sync hdr. if all goes to plan, i'm super happy. using reaper for 3 days and i'm really happy. seriously considering abandoning my kosher version of cubase sl.
thanks again
b
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