The BIG Automation Request !!!

mbuzz · 08-23-2007, 09:57 AM

I know this has been beat to death BUT to be honest with you this is the last major stumbling block for me in using Reaper.

I know Justin has been on the MIDI hunt ever sense I found Reaper I'm just wondering if Automation will be next JUSTIN ??????

Anyhow heres my list

1. grouping of faders ( I.E. select a bunch/group of faders and ride them during automation )
2. ability to group MUTE channels
3. possibly a better display/form of viewing the automation instead of lines ??? not a big deal IMO
4. Group arming/disarming to turn ON automation !

LAter
Buzz

Jae.Thomas · 08-23-2007, 10:16 AM

to be fair, MIDI actually hasnt been the focus of many updates...

audio has gotten more than its fair share.

however, I would have to agree that automation definetly NEEDS some updating.

for me?

If anyone here has tried out FL studio, mike, I would suggest just get the bloody demo so you can see what i mean

www.flstudio.com

you press the "record" button at the top, and you can automate

ANYTHING.

mute, solo, volume, pitch, VSTfx guis, ANYTHING

and it shows up as editable data...

in reaper, we could have a similar automation mode, automate ALL, or automate ALL on a track...

thats something i would LOVE

sorry if i derailed your thread.

mbuzz · 08-23-2007, 11:13 AM

I havent tried FLstudio but I have used Saw for the last 3 years and it has some VERY nice well thought out automation that is VERY easy to use .

No problem no thread Jacking ??

I would like to see this become a LIST of ideas for an Automation UPGRADE !!!!

Later
Buzz

geoff firebaugh · 08-23-2007, 11:56 AM

that is one thing i loved about nuendo, you could automate any parameter in your project.

+1 for v. 2.xxx

-g

WOK! · 08-23-2007, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

to be fair, MIDI actually hasnt been the focus of many updates...
audio has gotten more than its fair share.

That's the problem.
If I just want to put loops together, i could use Magix Music Maker or similar toy.
For serious making music, MIDI is the standard!

That means:
- better MIDI-editing, transpose, velocity, program change fields, swing-quantize
- better automation of plugins: "write automation", move any knob, "read automation", DONE (not clicking 200 boxes....)

Before that is done, I will not pay....

mbuzz · 08-23-2007, 04:28 PM

Sorry WOK but this is an automation thread , NON instrument players use the MIDI thread !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

LAter
Buzz

Bevosss · 08-23-2007, 04:36 PM

Definitely could use an 'arm all envelopes' command for vst/vsti's, and saving the automation with the item instead of the track would be the ultimate. Certainly would enhance creativity.

Oh yeah, +1 on all your ideas here mbuzz.

Jae.Thomas · 08-23-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbuzz

Sorry WOK but this is an automation thread , NON instrument players use the MIDI thread !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

LAter
Buzz

a couple of problems with your statement LOL

although its true, this isnt the thread for MIDI concerns,

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbuzz

NON instrument players

umm, just because someone uses midi dont mean they dont play an instrument hehe... actually, quite the opposite, unless they are mousing everything in... I use midi alot, but i certainly can "play" the parts with a midi keyboard, as well as mouse it in, and through all of it, i certainly PLAY alot of guitar

and....

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOK!

- better automation of plugins: "write automation", move any knob, "read automation", DONE (not clicking 200 boxes....)

at least PART of his post had to do with what we were talking about....

although his tone wasnt the nicest (comparing reaper to an mp3 slicer or magix music studio is quite depreciating, not only to it, but to the intelligence of the person making the statement)

but im sure you are just kidding around

and mbuzz, something tells me you werent taking it too serious anyway.

but who cares....

really,

the point is,

automation is not singly a MIDI or Audio issue, it affects both camps equally.

so lets get together and be squeaky

qwanta · 08-23-2007, 06:48 PM

I like the energyxt method of having automation within clips. If you then duplicate a clip the automation automatically moves with it no hassle.

mbuzz · 08-24-2007, 05:53 PM

BUMP !!!!!!!!!!

airon · 08-25-2007, 06:07 AM

For any synth, is would be only logical to display only the parameters you have actualy automated with knobs/slider/control surface. Everything should be selectable for manual editing with the usual ENVELOPE window or a new way of selecting visible automation.

In any case, displaying oly the stuff you modify while in write, touch or latch mode would be a great help.

When the number or parameters automated becomes too great for a track to display at once(in lanes), a CYCLE action, or SCROLL-AUTOMATION-LANES-UP/DOWN actions, or a DROP-DOWN list of displayable lanes(bigger/smaller according the track height and how many lanes will thus fit in to the track).

Till · 08-25-2007, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbuzz

I know Justin has been on the MIDI hunt ever sense I found Reaper I'm just wondering if Automation will be next JUSTIN ??????

our beloved programmers are improving midi right now because everybody in this forum has been screaming for it ("midi love"?). so wait your turn! it's all gonna be okay...

Jae.Thomas · 08-25-2007, 07:36 AM

Till,

again, i repeat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

automation is not singly a MIDI or Audio issue, it affects both camps equally.

airon · 08-25-2007, 09:15 AM

Let's wait and see what Justin implements.

There's plenty of automation stuff to sink our teeth in to after the next update.

Till · 08-25-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airon

Let's wait and see what Justin implements.

that's all i'm saying. it's can't always be your's.

Tallisman · 08-25-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwanta

I like the energyxt method of having automation within clips. If you then duplicate a clip the automation automatically moves with it no hassle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregh

For recording automation presumably one wants the option to be able to just move something and the automation is 'automatically' recorded - without having to arm etc.

Once recorded it would be nice if automation envelopes were linked to items and also could be decoupled to become an object in their own right - able to be copied, stretched, inverted etc, and reassigned to other paramters - regardless of whether the envelope was initially audio volume or some cc parameter.

This has been mentioned at least once before, but nice to see it come up again. However, automation improvements are, I think, linked into adding an item based editing scheme in addition to the track based scheme Reaper currently has.

++1 on this!
to be able to open any VSTi, or fx plugin, arm automation and move knobs and faders, knowing that what you touch will generate a lane for its data would be a massive improvement.

For VSTis like Stylus RMX it would mean the end of a 45 second wait everytime you invoke the automation parameter window. It would also eliminate hunt for numerically, obtusely named parameters.

Like this:
https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/32335/automation%20io.png

many greetings
-T

Jae.Thomas · 08-25-2007, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallisman

It would also eliminate hunt for numerically, obtusely named parameters.

Like this:
https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/32335/automation%20io.png

many greetings
-T

wow, indeed.

+1

airon · 08-25-2007, 11:23 AM

"Arm and Write parameter when on a parameter is changed"

It could be a checkbox in the envelope window above the other arming buttons which get greyed out or something. And for folks who don't want to waste time doing that(because of StylsRMX for example), that checkbox could be mirrored in the FX Window, next to the activation checkbox.

Put an instrument there and auto-write-arm it. Done. How about that.

+1

Jae.Thomas · 08-25-2007, 12:08 PM

umm has anyone just checked out the demo for FLstudio and did what i said?

easiest and best automation out there.

dont let its reputation fool you

www.flstudio.com

sinkmusic · 08-25-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallisman

It would also eliminate hunt for numerically, obtusely named parameters.

Like this:
https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/32335/automation%20io.png

Yes. I have the same headache with a couple of Raktor ensemble.

Automation has already been discussed to death , but it obviously wasn't the priority at all, so an alive topic is always welcome to bring back that important stuff ontop of the forum. Maybe v2 will come with more midi care ?

FL and Ext has already been quoted as daw with nice automation/midi learn integration, but i would also like to chime in to suggest to Justin (and whoever is interested of course!) to take a look at Ableton Live. It is very user-friendly, efficient, and you don't have as many modes, mouseclicks and weird things as in Reaper.

I like the concept of many plugins (right-click = learn) applied to a whole daw.
In fact, in Live, it is a bit different : you can bring the DAW into "midi learn assignation mode" with a single [ctrl+M](and it also have a "computer key assignation mode" which is amazing and works the same way), and then you click anything you wish to assign : a synth's cutoff, a track volume or pan, an efx send, the track tempo, a reverb decay, etc.
And voilà !
Nothing more is needed and it works fine.

I also suggest to take a look in a few weeks to EnergyXT2, because it should bring such a midi love update : automation from the GUI

At last, i would like to say again about the computer keyboard learn, which is awesome in Live, because it is so usefull to assign [on/off] type messages, like "when i hit [Q] => start recording on channel 1, and when i hit [Z] => start recording on the fly on channel 2, etc", so it is great for live recording on the fly.
Another thing for which it is fine is "Hit [H] => mute send efx1", or "Hit [P] => bypass master FX".
It is a mouseless and easy way to toggle stuff while mixing (like A/B compare).
And it can be recorded as automation curves, too, eh eh...

I hope theses examples are helpfull
Cheers

mbuzz · 08-26-2007, 12:02 PM

I noticed that Justin has track fader/pan etc. grouping on his 2.0 list !!! that would be a good start !

LAter
Buzz

dminoz · 08-26-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

umm has anyone just checked out the demo for FLstudio and did what i said?

easiest and best automation out there.

dont let its reputation fool you

www.flstudio.com

Yep, I have FL7 and you're quite right, automation is very easy. No messing around involved at all. I also have Cubase LE and that's the same: a Read button and a Write button for each channel. Hit "Write", and everything you do is recorded.

I would love to see the same ease of use in Reaper's automation.

mbuzz · 08-26-2007, 02:12 PM

Also the demo of Saw Studio Basic is a good source for automation formating etc. !!

Later
Buzz

mbuzz · 08-27-2007, 04:27 PM

Humm it appears that 9 out of 10 would like to see an upgrade !!

Later
Buzz

Yep I'm bumping it again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jae.Thomas · 08-27-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbuzz

Humm it appears that 9 out of 10 would like to see an upgrade !!

Later
Buzz

Yep I'm bumping it again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dude,

dont even count that one straggler. He may have posted drunk

muuuahahahhaahahahhaahha

mbuzz · 08-28-2007, 10:31 AM

It was probably ME LAST NIGHT !!!!! freakin hammered ( weel lot's O beer anyhow )

LAter
Buzz

mbuzz · 08-28-2007, 11:05 AM

1 more suggestion :

Scenes : ( this is a function that my old Roland VS2480 had and it was VERY USEFUL IMO )

by saving a scene during mixing tracking etc. it will store the current condition and state of everything ( mixer/fx/levels etc. ) and they are recallable , this is VERY handy while mixing to get back to where you were BEFORE you screwed it up LOL !!!

I also used it for song development to recall various versions/takes of the song in development !!!

This would be a NICE feature IMO

Later
Buzz

Jae.Thomas · 08-28-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbuzz

1 more suggestion :

Scenes : ( this is a function that my old Roland VS2480 had and it was VERY USEFUL IMO )

by saving a scene during mixing tracking etc. it will store the current condition and state of everything ( mixer/fx/levels etc. ) and they are recallable , this is VERY handy while mixing to get back to where you were BEFORE you screwed it up LOL !!!

I also used it for song development to recall various versions/takes of the song in development !!!

This would be a NICE feature IMO

Later
Buzz

hey man

do "Screensets" do this?

Im not really keen on screensets, but that sort of sounds like it.

if not, thats a great idea.

mbuzz · 08-28-2007, 12:11 PM

I have'nt really messed with screensets that much but I believe that this is a different function and one that I really used ALOT !!! I have been wanting to use it again !!!

I'll check on screen sets to see ????

LAter
Buzz

I checked it out and it is not the same

Jae.Thomas · 08-28-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbuzz

I have'nt really messed with screensets that much but I believe that this is a different function and one that I really used ALOT !!! I have been wanting to use it again !!!

I'll check on screen sets to see ????

LAter
Buzz

I checked it out and it is not the same

make a feature request dude (the more info the better, screenshots, whatever), it sounds like a great idea.

Tallisman · 08-28-2007, 12:28 PM

screensets do not currently store automation snapshots.

completely different yet invaluable feature imho, worthy of a FR. Still a feature that should NOT be tacked on to screensets.

Screensets are really for speeding up the navigation of your project. Different sets for editing different portions of the project, and/or mixing.

greetings,
T

mbuzz · 08-28-2007, 12:49 PM

I'll post an FR !
LAter
Buzz

sinkmusic · 08-30-2007, 12:24 AM

I just realized something this morning : That dodgy automation dosen't really fit into the Reaper paradigm : On the "about" page of the website, the very first thing you read in the right column is : "Tool-less mouse interface -- spend less time clicking"...
... but : how many clicks do you need to learn a simple volume fader in Reaper? where many others DAW need only 1 single click, here you need at least 4 or 5 (and that implies going into the menus, then repeating each step from the beginning for each other fader, then again checking that the correct automation mode is enbaled...) wooof ! It makes a big hell lot of mouseclicks, far tooo many.

mbuzz · 08-30-2007, 09:23 AM

Well it's 13-1 so ?????

LAter
Buzz

desertskies · 08-30-2007, 01:25 PM

improved automation ...++1

mbuzz · 08-31-2007, 04:03 PM

Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump

mbuzz · 09-07-2007, 11:43 AM

I figure sense we are asking for improvements this should be UP TOP !!
LAter
Buzz

Jae.Thomas · 09-07-2007, 01:09 PM

what else needs to be done? Mute automation has envelopes, and the rest is on its way, what else do we need now? Lets get focused

noone · 09-07-2007, 01:12 PM

i can't get automation to record smoothly, it's always "stair-stepped" making it pretty much useless to me. Is there a setting to fix this?

noone · 09-07-2007, 01:13 PM

...and. jesus christ jason are you ever NOt sitting in front of this forum!? lol, just teasing, although I bet you like the fact that you now have more posts then anyone!?